June 21, 2022

A Little Bit of Kindness Is Good For The Bottom Line

In this episode of TribePod, Jim Stroud interviews CHRO John Riley on leadership traits and the conversation morphs into how kindness influences the bottom line and enhances employer brand. Questions asked during this interview include: 
  • What do you think is one of the greatest core values a (HR) leader should possess to be effective?
  • What is the most important advice you’ve received in your career?
  • What is the biggest risk with the new workforce and how do employers overcome the obstacle of mounting pressures to conform to new ideas?
  • How will employers need to adapt to the new workforce mindset? 
  • As a leader, how do you create a culture that doesn’t leave anyone in the dust?
  • Help! I’m in HR, how do I get a seat at the table?
thumbnail_image0John Riley, SHRM-CP and Chief Human Resources Officer
John Riley is a human resource executive with over 15 years of responsible and progressive experience in human resource management as well as leadership and operational excellence. His professional experiences include strategic program management, training, employee and organizational development and corporate purpose and culture. John is passionate about workforce development and equipping the next generation of leaders to take on new challenges and succeeding in the rapidly changing arena of management. He can be reached via LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jchrisriley 
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Speaker 0 (0s): Hello, dear listener. And depending on when you are listening, Good morning or good afternoon or good evening, Jim Stroud here with another episode of TribePod today, I'm talking with John Riley, who is a chief human resource officer with over 15 years of responsible and progressive experience in HR management, as well as leadership and operational excellence. His professional experiences include strategic program management, training employee, and organizational development and corporate purpose and culture. John is passionate about workforce development and that's something that you definitely would pick up on in our conversation.

And that conversation will begin right now. You are listening to TribePod a podcast series of interviews of interests to the HR community. It is hosted by Jim Stroud, sponsored by Proactive Talent and enjoyed by you. Today's episode begins right after this.

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Speaker 3 (1m 33s): Seventy percent of candidates will research a company before even applying. And 86% of candidates will not work for a company that has a bad or non existent employer brand. Some of the many benefits of having an effective and strong employer brand include doubling the amount of applicants you get per job posts, decreasing your cost per hire by 40% improving employee retention by 60% and overall just yield better Glassdoor reviews.

Speaker 2 (2m 0s): We know that companies with stronger employer brands spend about 10% less overall for talent.

Speaker 4 (2m 6s): Proactive Talent helps out clients with their Employer Brand my going in and, and working with them in several phases to learn more about the culture, the people, what are the important values to each and every employee. And then to share that story and refresh the Employer Brand, or build it from the ground. Now, the benefits of having an effective Employer Brand is that you're going to be able to attract the talent that you really want to join your company and not just people who would be simply applying for whatever requisitions you have out there. They generally love your message, love your culture, and are there to be with you for the long haul.

Speaker 0 (2m 41s): For more information on Proactive Talent, visit them online at Proactive Talent dot com or click the link in the podcast description. Hello. And depending on when you're listening to this podcast, good morning, good afternoon, or good evening. It's time for another exciting episode of tribe pod. I'm your host, Jim Stroud. And with me today is a very special guest special guest. Tell us who are you and what do you do?

Speaker 5 (3m 6s): Yeah, absolutely. Jim, thank you for having me on the show today. My name is John Riley and I am a chief human resource officer in community banking, been in human resources for about a little over 13 years now. And mainly my, my biggest focuses right now, Jim is on leadership development and just taking the, this new workforce to the next level. Everybody knows how quickly things are changing and we all want to be a part of that. And so that's a, that's kind of what we're focusing on right now.

Speaker 0 (3m 35s): I can dig it. I can dig it. You know, I've heard that heard it said that bad leadership is a curse.

Speaker 5 (3m 45s): Yeah. Yeah. You know, leadership is, is a character trait, Jim, that I've heard said, you know, not everybody is a leader, not every manager is a leader and, and not every leader is a manager. And so, you know it, yeah, you're, you're absolutely right on that. Hmm.

Speaker 0 (4m 8s): What is it, speaking of that, What do you think is one of the greatest core values and HR leader should possess to be effective? You think?

Speaker 5 (4m 17s): Yeah. You know, some of, some of the it's the biggest core values. I think Jim is, is probably kindness.

Speaker 0 (4m 26s): Kindness, really?

Speaker 5 (4m 28s): Yeah. I, my mom used to always tell me, Jen, when I was growing up, she said, John, she said, no matter what you do, no matter what you decide you want to do in life, always make sure you do it with kindness. You know, leading with kindness, I believe is one of the most important character traits that, that a leader can have. And when I started doing leadership development, especially with managers with new managers, especially kindness is the very first thing that I touch on.

I I'm very much a people person. I go around the office, I'm high five and I'm talking to people, Hey, how was your day? How was your kids? You know, and a lot of people, a lot of people mistake kindness for weakness. Sure. But being kind is something that takes a lot of self-awareness. It takes a lot of personal confidence and it's a mindset that ensures that, that goodness, and you see goodness in others and positivity and challenging situations. And, and, and most of all, especially for human resources, kindness requires us to be human.

And, and that's that to me, if you can start with kindness, then every other leadership, characteristic and trade and core value that you need to possess to be successful is going to fall right. In place.

Speaker 0 (5m 44s): Very interesting. Very interesting. It reminds me, I don't know why, but it reminds me of a movie quote where someone said, someone asked the question, is, is it better to be loved or feared? You know, and as far as, as being a leader and the person who was asking was a mobster. So the answer was, did you fear, but your answer, your, your comment about kindness though? I think it really resonated to me in that I think someone who is kind is probably a more effective leader because someone who is kind to you, they will incentivize you to do work for them that you want to do.

So they'll do stuff as you go above and go above and beyond because they want to do it because they so are enamored by you or they so appreciate you. Whereas someone or other, rather a leader who promotes fear, I think the people do just enough to stay under the radar to keep away from the RAF. So I, I want to applaud your at your kindness comment.

Speaker 5 (6m 48s): And you're absolutely right on that. Kindness is something that it accelerates trust. And, you know, like I said, it starts there, it's like a foundational value because everything else builds on that. And when you can, when you've got trust with your employees, you've got happier employees, like you said, you've got employees that want to do, want to perform and want you empower them through that. And it just it's, it provides better results. It drives everything from there. I, I told someone just earlier this week, I was able to go to a national human resource conference in new Orleans.

And I was telling somebody, you know, what, we, what we need more of our chief attitude officers. We need people to walk around the office and really just set the attitude of the office. And, and you know, what's great about that. Gym is it doesn't have to be somebody in the C-suite. It doesn't have to be an executive, a VP AVP, a chief attitude officer can be the, the maintenance guy walking around the office. It can be the receptionist, you know, that takes phone calls. Any of those people can fill that position.

And it's up to us to empower those people, to feel like they have the ability to do that.

Speaker 0 (8m 0s): Very good. I liked that. I liked that I'm getting idea of a corporate wide cheerleader sort of walks around with pompoms and coffee. You've been in the M in HR game, I think 13 years. You said

Speaker 5 (8m 17s): 13 years. Yeah. Wow.

Speaker 0 (8m 18s): Wow. I bet you have some war stories. What's the most important advice you receive in your career?

Speaker 5 (8m 25s): I know this is something that's, it's, it's resignates with me. And I will carry till the day that I'm no longer privileged to be on this earth. My very first job out of college, my supervisor wa you know, I was, I was promoted into my very first leadership position and my manager walked up to me and she pulled me off to the side. And she said, look, I want to tell you something. She said, if you want to be successful, this is what you need to, you need to do three things. You need to lose the ego.

You need to stay humble, Always be above reproach. And if you can do those three things as a manager, as a leader, if you want to Excel in leadership, even beyond here, of course, that was, you know, four, four or five jobs ago, but she said, you know, if you want to go and you want to continue your leadership journey in life, these are the three things that you've got to do, because no matter what happens, no matter, you know, if, if you ever, you know, get laid off, if you ever, your, your reputation is always going to precede you, and as long as you can always do those three things, three things, there will always be a door available for you to walk through because those three things will proceed.

You and Jim, that has absolutely stayed true to, especially for me, everybody went through, you know, changes during COVID back in 2020. And I had a great, great position for, you know, a huge health care network as HR manager. And of course I was not the most senior person. And that was at the time when everybody, you know, people were, employees were doing layoffs and, you know, I got, I got laid off and it was the first time since I was 16 years old that I had ever been without a job had I had a job since high school and went from one job to the other, all the way through college, out of college, all the way up to just a few years ago.

And when I was looking for a job, I had people telling me, Hey, you're not going to have a hard time finding a job because you know, this is the, this is the kind of person you are. And this, this is the kind of person that employers are looking for. And it absolutely was, was true. Jim and I definitely had a door open for me, and I believe it was because, because those, those things

Speaker 0 (10m 45s): I liked that I liked that it reminds me too, of how people could ducted themselves during the pandemic. You really saw people were, were made, you know, definitely saw their character. And I know from experience in dealing with so many different people, how you see who people are. A lot of times when they're laid off, I've been in that situation several times and people who can take a layoff gracefully without the attitude, or work out, maybe too emotional, they can maintain their professionalism.

They tend to go further because people will remember how well they performed under pressure. And they're more willing to refer them out to other opportunities that come, that come around a pop culture reference. I'm thinking about the infamous will Smith slap of Chris rocket at the academy awards And how everyone was talking about how will Smith embarrass himself in that situation. But he also talked about how Chris rock maintain his professionalism.

And since that moment he has more offers he's, he's got, he's doing his comedy tours. She's really blooming and blossoming, whereas, you know, will Smith, is, is it a questionable situation right now? And I think it's as shocking as it was as controversial as it was. I think it really, really exemplified Chris's rock Chris Rock's and professionalism. And it's, it's paying off for him in a longterm. I think we'll do well for people to remember that, because I think we're about to enter into a very interesting season in our economy.

And I think it moves people to maintain professionalism at all times. So when you said that made me think about that.

Speaker 5 (12m 32s): Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, who you are in time of adversity is, is, is what your, your character that you really, really are. I'd strongly believe that.

Speaker 0 (12m 43s): Yeah. With so much risk right now, going on thinking of the recession and so forth and how people respond to it, what do you think is the biggest risk with the new workforce and how do employers overcome the obstacle of mounting pressures to conform to new ideas?

Speaker 5 (13m 0s): Yeah. You know, one of the big things that was topic of discussion at the, at the Sherm conference this week was, you know, where the, where the workplace is going. You know, not a lot of employers, especially, you know, maybe the older generation employers like this, you know, discussion because it's becoming more of an employees market than it is an employer market.

And employers are no longer writing the job offers. The employees are riding the job offers the applicants are riding the job offers. So it's no longer, Hey, if we really like you, we want you to come work for us. This is your offer. And you either sign here and start Monday are you don't sign here and you go to the next interview, you know, but, but employee applicants now are coming to employers and saying, Hey, I see you have this position open.

This is what I want. This is how I want to be treated. These are the benefits that I want, if you don't like it, I don't sign. And I go to the next job. And that is, and that's exactly, that's exactly what it's turning into. And so I think the biggest risk is employers not realizing that they're going to have to conform a little bit. They're going to have to kind of think outside the box and, you know, and especially the newer generation.

And I try to stay away from all the, the generational link lingo, X and Y and millennials and

Speaker 0 (14m 38s): Stuff.

Speaker 5 (14m 39s): I mean, we're all people and we're all here and we're all, you know, so, and we're all human. And that's what I love about human resources. Because if you know, we treat everybody the same, but, but as employers, we've got to realize if I'm going to create a workforce that is going to take me into the future, that's going to take me into the next generation of success. I'm going to have to change a little bit with, with the workforce. Right. And so we see a lot of things like employers offering different types of benefits, benefits that we've never even heard of.

We've got, you know, working home from home, telecommunity pet insurance. I mean, these are just things that we are, you know, you've got, we've got to be as employers flexible and realizing what we're going to have to, if not, it's going to be a huge risk. And, and, and unfortunately I believe, and I have seen employers that have refused to conform and change, and it's, it's a, it's hurt a lot.

Speaker 0 (15m 40s): Yeah. I think the pain is what's going to make a company change. For the most part. There was an article I saw just a moment ago from a Recode where they reported on a leaked memo from Amazon saying how they've hired everyone they can hire. And the labor market is so tight that they don't have anyone else to hire anymore. So what are they going to do? You know? And it really was putting a damper on their expansion plans and so forth. And I think it's going to be situations like that where companies have their backs against the wall, that they're going to be the most flexible at that point.

We're going to see, I think we're going to see more crazy benefits like yours. Like the one you were mentioning. I think the companies that are going that are going to win out when talent is just that stark are companies that really give interesting perks. Like you mentioned one perk that I don't see that much of, but I think it would be golden handcuffs for a lot of employees. If a company gave benefits of we'll pay for the care of your aging parents, because we have a lot of where a lot of age parents that that probably would resonate a lot.

But I think also is going to be the company's advantage to really invest in their employer, branding, you know, they got to really show that they are the best place to work because it's not always about money. You know, I saw this.

Speaker 5 (17m 10s): Exactly, exactly. I was. I was just about to say that it it's becoming less about the compensation and more about the human aspect of, of the employee. You know, what are you going to do for me? Are you going to care about me? Are you going to care about my family and my personal wellbeing? And if you, if, if I'm happy with that, then, you know, compensation is second. And a lot of people don't believe that, but that is absolutely right.

Speaker 0 (17m 35s): The payscale.com did a survey of the most and least loyal employees. And on that list was Google and Google was known for all the great perks, you know, free rock concerts on the square. I'll just kind of crazy stuff that they do. What do you think is the average tenure of a Google employee? Now this was pre pandemic. So this was from a, I think this was 2018.

I think it was 2017, says 18 somewhere in there. So they were on the list for being among the companies that had the highest median pay their employees. But can you guess what the average tenure was according to payscale.com?

Speaker 5 (18m 22s): Yeah. I'm probably going to say about three years

Speaker 0 (18m 25s): New. I'm going to tell you it's 13 months.

Speaker 5 (18m 29s): Really?

Speaker 0 (18m 32s): Yeah. Yeah. 13 months with all of those perks and they were having an issue with retention. I don't know if, how they qualify the 13 months. I don't know if it was, you know, contractors were factored in, I don't know if it's a matter of, once you have Google on your resume, everyone else was trying to recruit you away. That could be part of it too. I don't know. But 13 months with all of those perks, wow. Money is not everything to keep your employees.

Speaker 5 (19m 1s): That's absolutely correct. You know, cause you know, employees are saying, Hey, I would, I would rather take less money and be off every Friday.

Speaker 0 (19m 11s): Sure.

Speaker 5 (19m 12s): You know, our, you know, you know, as far as more and more flexibility and telecommuting or better benefits, you know, for my family. So yeah, I can definitely, I definitely see that.

Speaker 0 (19m 23s): I see a real tug of war going on too and get your input on this. I see a real tug of war as well from companies who want to bring their employees back to the workforce. I'm thinking of Tesla, Elon Musk saying, I'll come to come to the office or you're fired. And I see that a lot of workers are spoiled for lack of a better word. And they used to work from home. They don't want to go back to the office and I could see companies saying, Hey, we spent all this money on office space. Somebody needs to be here. He pays his lease for the next year or so. You know, how do you think this is ultimately gonna go on to end work from home or go to the office or something in between?

What do you think?

Speaker 5 (20m 1s): I, I definitely think it's going to be a mix of both. I think, I think we're going to have, obviously in, in a lot of professions, you've got to have people in the office for certain things. Sure. But I think a lot of administrative jobs are probably going to be moved toward Killam telecommuting and you know, working from home more. So I definitely think it's going to be a mix of both. I don't think the office, you know, the, the nine to five grind is going to go away just yet. And now as technology increases and gets better and we're able to do more remotely.

I mean, we've already seen just in the last two years, I mean, before 2020 who heard a zoom, I had never, I had never heard, I mean, colleges and schools and universities were using it, but you know, your average day, Joe had never heard of zoom before. So just in the last two years we have taken technology and we've, we've increased leaps and bounds now. And we're doing things as part of the workforce that we've never done. I mean, I never, never thought I would be doing interviews over video conference.

So I definitely think that that's going to continue to increase and it's going to continue to progress. And as it does, I think we're going to see more, more of a shift, but I don't think it's, I don't think the office is, is quite done yet, but I definitely think we're going to see a big shift in certain, certain types of positions moving toward remote work.

Speaker 0 (21m 28s): How do you think the trend of the great resignation, a potential recession, crazy gas prices? How does all of that factor in you think,

Speaker 5 (21m 40s): You know, that's all going to come back to that human aspect and, and, and, and culture that you're building around your, your employment. You know, it's definitely, you know, recession and all of that is lingering in the back of everybody's mind, gas prices of course, is affecting everybody's pocket. And you know, the great resignation is this, this term that, you know, obviously has blown up and has been on every magazine cover in the last six months. But, you know, I think as employers, it goes back to that.

We're just going to have to adjust and we're going to have to make every decision that employers are going to be making is going to have to take the employee in mind. And, you know, it is making this decision for my company. How is it going to affect, you know, the employee? That's not a question, unfortunately, that had always been asked, you know, employers were very performance-based, you know, very, you know, where's the ROI, you know, get, you know, show me, show me, show me what we're doing to move forward and less about how am I going?

How was the decisions that I'm making? How are the decisions that I'm making, affecting the employee and, and helping them to, to, you know, stick around and, and help us get there. So I believe that's, you know, unfortunately that's something that is on everybody's mind. And I think it's, it's gonna come down to, you know, those that are around the table saying, okay, let's look at every decision we're making and how it's affecting, you know, those people that, that keep the, the wheel greased around here.

Speaker 0 (23m 23s): He said something very interesting there, you said the word table. I'm thinking about how, when you, if you were to ask a CEO or anyone at C-suite, what's the most valuable resource, they always say our people, our most valuable resource, you know, without our people where we're nothing yet HR and more often in HR and more cases than not is not, does not have a seat at the proverbial table. They're not there when a lot of decisions are made. They're just sort of this isn't just sort of rolled down on top of them and you have to deal with it.

Why do you think HR overall? I mean, it may not be the case in every company, but certainly in a lot of companies, HR doesn't have a seat at the table. Why do you think that is?

Speaker 5 (24m 3s): Well, I mean, that's a great question. And it's a question that I promise you, every, every person in human resources ask, you know, because unfortunately now not in my current position, I'm privileged to have a seat at the table. And, and I think we are making strides to include human resources in the, you know, in those executive decisions, but not every company is privileged as to, to be in that situation. And it goes back to, you know, that old mindset, that old train of thought of, you know, those that are around the table are more focused about where the company is going, right where profitability return on investment, big, big picture.

And so it's easier to sit there and say, all the employees are our most valuable asset, Jim, but really are they, and show me what, show me how they are the most valuable asset. And, you know, I did a training not too long ago, and I did some research in this and I found out that this a staggering statistic, 88% of C-suite executives cannot explain their company culture.

Speaker 0 (25m 16s): Wow.

Speaker 5 (25m 18s): And so, wow. That's, that's staggering. You walk up to the CFO and you say, tell me what it's like to work here. Right? Give me that 32nd elevator pitch and 88% of, of C-suite executives said, you know, I don't know. I can't tell you what our culture is. And so that, that's something that human resources is going to have to be the trusted advisor. And if, if, if you want a seat at the table and you're trying to get a seat at the table, you know, one of the, I get asked a lot, Hey, you know, do you have any great resources for HR managers?

And, you know, what's something that will help us get to see the table. And I say, Hey, you know, David master wrote a book called the trusted advisor. And I mean, this is an excellent, excellent resource. So, you know, he, in his book, he says, it's, it's not enough for professionals to be right. But advisors have to be helpful. And, you know, he also said, it's amazing what you can achieve when you're not worried about who gets the credit.

And so I've always told, you know, human resources or just leaders, individual, Hey, if you want a seat at the table, if you, if this is something that you're, you're trying to get to be helpful, be selfless because once you can achieve those two things, when you can be selfless, selfless, and you can be helpful, that's when somebody starts pulling out the seat for you, because they know that you're not there for you. They know you're there for the bigger picture. Once you've got a seat at the table, it's kinda like, you know, going fishing once you've got, once you set the hook and you've got the seat at the table, then you build on that.

And that's where you start pulling in the human aspect to, to your team and to your, your company culture.

Speaker 0 (27m 15s): Well, let me say, let's, let's put you in the proverbial hot seat for a second year. Okay. So you had an HR manager, you had the CEO's ear. The CEO says to you over lunch or in a meeting, Hey, we, we just had a, some layoffs regretfully, and I seed recession numbers on the horizon. Solid hear about the news. So it's in my forefront of my mind. I know a lot of my employees are probably nervous right now. I want to one, calm them down, not engage them.

They're not working, we're not working. We're losing money. Tell me some ways I can preserve my culture or create a positive culture in the midst of all of this uncertainty. And with the underlying reason being that I don't want to lose a lot of my workforce because it's going to cost me money to replace these people. You know, it's cheaper to keep her as a song, as a song. So how can I keep everybody reasonably happy and keep my workforce in the middle of all this uncertainty?

What, what's the magic widget? What could I do?

Speaker 5 (28m 21s): Two words, transparency and engagement. We've got so many companies that I don't want to say have secrets, but we've got so many, I guess. Cause I mean, obviously you can't just go around and sharing every detail with everyone, but transparency about why the company is in the situation that it's in or why it's making decisions that it's making and sharing that with everyone.

Because once an employee knows why you're making the decision, then that takes off the stress of them asking who's next are what's next. And so transparency, you know, and engagement engagement, have the, bring the employees in and say, Hey, what are some ideas? You give us some ideas. How can we keep you engaged a lot of times?

And, and this is a fault of a lot of HR managers. Jim is, you know, we, we try to think for the employees And that never ends well. I mean, it's like shooting an arrow in the dark because you think, you know, what the employees want. You think, you know what the culture is and you think, you know, you know how to keep everybody engaged. When, when really you're just, you're just guessing. And, and you know, somebody, there's a, I read something not too long ago that said, if you're the one making all the decisions for everyone, then you're never going to have a D you're never going to have a decision that's better than your own.

And so, you know, we've got to keep the employees engaged and, and that's not, you know, that's not sending out employee engagement forums, and that's not doing surveys. And you say, you know, okay, one through five, how do you feel the employee cares about no, that's not what we're, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about sitting down with the employees one-on-one and saying, give me some ideas. I'm giving you an opportunity to share with me what you're thinking, right?

How do I help you? How do, how, what are some ways do you think we can move forward? What are some ways that we can improve retention? And I promise you, once you start getting engaged with the employees, you're going to come out with tons of data to help you move forward.

Speaker 0 (30m 53s): I liked that. It reminds me of something I read, I don't remember the company, but they had a really high retention rate. It was a smaller company, smaller being under 500 employees. But this is something that the CEO and the managers all do in the company. And they had like a really strong retention rate because of it. They would have, they was scheduled two meetings or at least a one meeting and they will have one-on-ones and they will say, okay, in this meeting, I'm going to listen to what you have to say. If you want to complain, if you want to give praise, if you want to cry, whatever the case may be, I am your defacto therapist today.

Tell me what you want to tell me about the company. Hopefully it's something good. Right? And so they sit there and they listen for like 10 minutes, you know, assuming that the employee has nothing to say. And then when they finished an employee finishes saying, it's okay, thank you for that. I'm not gonna, they're not gonna, I'm not gonna respond to what you said. I'm gonna take notes on what you said. I'm going to go back to the bat cave and think about it. And then I'm going to come back later in a more open setting and say, Hey, I've listened one-on-one to all of you people, and all of your comments taken into advisement.

This is what we're going to do. Even if their manager or CEO, whoever says something that nobody likes, they're able to accept it more because they know that they listened. Yes. Even if they don't agree with the decision and even they're mad about it, it only goes so far because they said, well, at least he listened. At least the guy listened to me, at least that at least I was able to vent to him. Right. That one little thing listening. I don't, I don't have a metric for it, but I know this company, I'm thinking that I was, they had a very strong retention rate because of doing stuff like that.

So it doesn't cost a lot of money. You know, it takes a little bit of patience.

Speaker 5 (32m 42s): Exactly. And you said something very important there, too. Jim, I want to bounce off of, you said, you know, managers have that. They do that. The, and they say, this is what we're going to do. I just to bounce off that and say, if you're a leader or an executive or whatever you are supervisor, if you say you're going to do something follow through that is very, very important. Always follow through. That's, you know, follow follow through is another one of the key components and the core values that I, that I, you know, teach new and upcoming managers.

If you, you know, do what you say and say what you do. And you know, if you have to say, Hey, this is what we're going to do. And you have to give yourself a timeframe to hold yourself accountable, then do that. But the worst way, the worst thing that you can do to lose credibility with your team is to say, Hey, this is what we're going to do. And then never do it because then you will stop getting the feedback that you've begged far for the last nine months telling people, Hey, we want your feedback.

We want better communication. We want this, we want this. We care for you. And then you get all of that feedback, right? You've convinced the employees. You finally convinced the employees to sit down with you and give you all of this data and give you all of this information. And you say, this is amazing data. This is great data. This is what we're going to do. And then you don't do it. The next time you sit down with your employees, they're not going to tell you anything. And so, because it's a waste of time.

And so do what you say, say what you're going to do, hold yourself accountable and always follow through.

Speaker 0 (34m 27s): Very, very good advice. I've, I've definitely enjoyed this conversation. If someone wanted more information about you and how they can contact you for more about what we've been talking about here, how can they find you online?

Speaker 5 (34m 40s): Yeah. Love, love talking about leadership and leadership development, Jim. And if anybody wants to reach out to me, they can visit my LinkedIn page. Just LinkedIn. My username is Jay Chris Riley. And my email address is John Riley, J O H N R I L E y@outlook.com.

Speaker 0 (34m 57s): Very cool. Well, John, thank you so much for being on crab pod. You are appreciated.

Speaker 5 (35m 1s): Thank you so much, Jim, for having me.

Speaker 0 (35m 13s): Thank you. Thank you. Thank you a thousand times. Thank you for listening and subscribing to our podcast. If you have any questions, comments, or suggestions, please send them to us. You can reach us at TribePod that's T R I P O D at Proactive Talent dot com. We look forward to hearing from you.


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