April 22, 2022

How To Increase Employee Engagement with Remote Workers

In this episode, Jim Stroud speaks with Stephen Costigan and Thomas Fisher of Metaspark to discuss employee engagement with remote workers, challenging Henry Ford's vision, how individual work impacts on the organization and how to understand your employees without spying on them. Stephen and Thomas can be connected via their website - Metaspark.io. 
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QUESTIONS ASKED IN THIS PODCAST
  • What is Henry Ford’s vision? 
  • How has Henry Ford’s vision changed overtime and how does it affect us in today’s world? 
  • How do companies increase employee engagement in this new era of remote and hybrid work? 
  • What does this new era of work mean for employers? 
  • What are employers failing at in this new era and how can we prevent ourselves from making those mistakes? 
  • How has the Great Resignation affected the way companies hire? 
  • How can companies learn to understand their employees better? 
  • How does spying on your employees affect trust and quality of work? 
  • How do you think the work environment will change over the next 10 years?
employer branding
 
ABOUT OUR GUESTS
 
Stephen Costigan 

1616181959968Stephen Costigan has spent his entire career in technology with organizations like Capgemini & Microsoft prior to his successful entrepreneurial ventures over the past decade. He is a true innovator who leverages his extensive experience in technology, ability to see trends and challenges years in advance, and brings game changing thought leadership to market, primarily in the B2B segment, promoting scalable solutions that always center around customer success and outcomes.
 
Stephen is responsible for MetaSpark’s platform vision and feature inception and directs the sales, marketing, and fundraising activities of the company. He works with customers and the product teams to turn customer feedback into customer value. Stephen is also the Founder and CEO of CloudScale, which has delivered consistent revenue and profitability for the past six years working with some of the largest and most recognizable brands.
 
 Thomas Fisher
 
1539266930765Thomas Fisher is a Career B2B sales professional, executive leader, and entrepreneur with specialties in sales strategy, operations, methodologies, social selling, and coaching. He is driven by a passion for leading and serving others, fostering environments of innovative thinking, collaborative efforts, and flawless execution. He has spent nearly his entire career in technology working from startups and challenger brands to global 100 firms.
 
 

 
TRANSCRIPT
 
Speaker 0 (0s): Hello. Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. Or good night, depending on when you are listening to this podcast. My name is Jim Stroud and I am the VP of Marketing at Proactive Talent. And I am the host of TribePod. Today on TribePod, I speak with Stephen Costigan and Thomas Fisher of Metaspark and it was a very enjoyable conversation. I must say, we talked about, wow, so many things, employee engagement, Henry Ford's vision, the individual work impact on an organization, understanding your employees without spying on them and a, What does this new era of work mean for employers among so many other things?I thoroughly enjoyed it. I think they enjoyed it. I'm pretty confident you will enjoy it. And it all begins. You are listening to TribePod a podcast series of interviews of interests to the HR community. It is hosted by Jim Stroud, sponsored by Proactive Talent and enjoyed by you.Today's episode begins right after this.Speaker 2 (1m 25s): On-Demand recruiting is an hourly service that we offer where our recruiters work as an extension of your business, hoping to fill your positions in finding top talent.Speaker 3 (1m 35s): So on demand recruiting is there to address issues and hiring. When a company is experiencing a lot of growth, when they're having some seasonality changes where they may temporarily need to expand their recruiting team, you maybe have a new line of business or a space where you're expanding your business and you need to bring in specialty expertise to help fill those niche roles that your internal team may not yet be ramped up onSpeaker 4 (2m 1s): Proactive Talent on demand. Recruits is quite different from a lot of the other models that you're going to see in the workplace. Whereas you're going to pay a contingency recruiting firm typically on average, around 20%, sometimes up to 30% of the first year salary of the person. And in that same period of time, you'll spend less than a quarter of that with Proactive Talent managed on demand.Speaker 0 (2m 30s): For more information on Proactive Talent, visit us online at Proactive Talent dot com or click the link in the podcast description. Hello and welcome. Once again, to a new episode of TribePod with me today are two guests. Yes, two guests, instead of one, this is what we do for our listeners guests. Number one, Thomas Fisher, if you would please tell us who you are and what you do.Speaker 5 (2m 54s): Sure. Jen, and first of all, thank you for, for inviting us in. So yeah, I, I had growth and strategy for a brilliant company. Metaspark I had originally moved to Chicago to become a chef, but found out I was pretty good at sales and executive leadership. And so that has steered my career and I've been in technology for probably the last two decades plus, so again, thanks for having us onSpeaker 0 (3m 21s): Very cool. Stephen Costigan, please tell us who you are and what you do.Speaker 6 (3m 26s): Sure. My name is Stephen Costigan and I'm a director at MetaSpark and you know, we're on a mission to change the employee landscape by building a platform that offers equity to allSpeaker 0 (3m 41s): Very cool. I was so excited to talk to you guys because one of my passions, one of the things that I focus on maybe too much is this whole world of work. It's like it's a living and breathing entity. And when you consider how the world of work has evolved over the years is just, is just amazing. Now this, this pandemic has forced a lot of people, a lot of companies to let their workers work from home, which so to start this whole, this whole hybrid office kind of thing, but that is certainly one major change.But I think one of the first major changes was, was around Henry Ford and the way he automated his factories. Let me start off with you. Would you, Thomas, what do you say is, is Henry Ford's vision and how do you think it evolved over the years?Speaker 5 (4m 29s): Well, you know, it has definitely evolved and now Steven will have a different, a little bit different view, but in, in challenging that inheritance, you know, the, the, the nine to five, you know, repetitive or standing on that assembly line, you know, not necessarily a true connection or, or, you know, golden thread throughout the organization. I mean, he left a tremendous legacy and I know Steven wants to touch on this a little bit of, of innovation, but to your point earlier, boy had things changed and they were starting to change for a long time.We were just kind of forced, really forced fed into it with COVID and then everyone, you know, working in different places and being a part at nine to five is no longer a thing. So it was really amplified by, by COVID and, you know, fortuitously for us as an organization, because we started this before COVID and just so happens. We have a lot of answers.Speaker 0 (5m 30s): Sure, sure. Steven, you care to comment there,Speaker 6 (5m 33s): I'm sure. I'll just say I don't necessarily challenge anything, you know, any, any of the models or vision of Henry Ford, you know, you gotta put it in the context of the time that he was innovating in. And I say innovation because, you know, at that time, the typical workweek was like 48 to 50 hours a week, maybe more and people worked six a week. So, you know, the decision to move to a 40 hour work week really meant that people had more time for leisure activities and to spend money, which if you look at the history and, and kind of why he made that decision, it's largely lent to that a particular data point there.But, you know, it's really more than that. And I think it started to bring about change and, you know, while each person and family experienced varying degrees of democratized personal time, because of that change and working for Ford, I think the realization by Ford and then other companies across the U S and then globally that without the consumer, there really are no companies was really, really important, a very important development in terms of welfare for people at that time.And that little change in how companies viewed employees as not just creators, but consumers. I think, again, set the stage for what today, in my opinion, is a workplace where the consumer, if you will holds a lot of the power.Speaker 0 (7m 7s): Sure, sure. And it all makes sense to me. When I think about companies from Henry Ford's day and onto the present issues of employee engagement, I think we're probably easier to manage because everybody's in the same spot. Everybody, you know, comes to the office every day. You get used to working with one another different personalities, and you can sort of tell when people are engaged with their work or not. But now we're in this, this whole new era of remote work and in hybrid work where people show up to the office, maybe a couple of days a week, but for the most time, for the most part that work from home and keeping that employee engagement is, is, is somewhat challenging in these days and times.And everybody isn't there at the same time. Let me ask you, let me ask you, Tom, how do you think companies can increase employee engagement and this new era of remote and hybrid work?Speaker 5 (7m 58s): Well, I'd like to back up just a minute and say, what do you know, what have we lost right with this new, you know, the, you know, and there's a few big ones, the, the loss of consistency, right. You know, everyone works in there, you know, right now is working in their own environment or a hybrid environment, the loss of visibility. So, you know, you used to be able to walk down the hall, walk down to a cubicle, check on your employee and that loss of serendipity, you know, everything's, everything's scheduled now.So I think addressing, I think addressing those three areas are, are critical right now. And I think that's where some of the struggles, you know, some of the struggles are quite frankly,Speaker 0 (8m 41s): I think you missed out the water cooler. I know I spent many a time at the water cooler talking to people and that increased engagement. One sort of another, what do you think Steven?Speaker 6 (8m 56s): Well, I have varying responses to this, but I really think improving engagement or maintaining or driving increasing engagement really comes down to being more concerned with employee welfare than ever before. And really ensuring that people understand the vision of the organization, the values and what their purpose is, because you know, that is just so critical to people being engaged, to understand how you, as a person in an organization impact that organization.Success is really critical.Speaker 0 (9m 40s): Yeah. You mentioned sort of touched on, I think the purpose of your work. I know that resonates a lot with millennials. They want to feel like the job they are working on is making the whole world a better place or at least a country to a better place than is in some instance, do you think that's the case with other generations, like generation X, for example, or baby boomers, do you think they're so concerned that the way they do their job as affecting the entire world, or do you think they're all about a paycheck? What do you thinkSpeaker 6 (10m 11s): A lot of the time, you know, it really wasn't on the menu. Like passion, wasn't a thing for generation X and beyond. I definitely believe it's it's front and center. And, you know, for companies that really, I mean, it really means aligning with the passion of every employee and using technology to remove mundane tasks that impact engagement and reduce job satisfaction and doing that at every level of the company.You know, it also means like, like I was saying before, connecting people to the mission and the values of the company, because, you know, when you talk to many executives today, they have no idea how their roles aligns to the values of the company. People don't sit around and thinking about that. So, and if anyone disagree is just sit back in your chair and ask yourself, how do the domain areas that I control in my company, move the company I work for forward and his vision and how D how does the work that I do do that through its values?A lot of people really can't answer that question is because companies don't spend enough time on aligning people with the mission and the values of the company can, I think, you know, really connecting what people do with the impact that it's having on the org is super critical.Speaker 0 (11m 33s): Hmm. Hmm. Thomas, do you think that plays a lot with generation Z? These, these young whippersnappers?Speaker 5 (11m 41s): I have one, I have one, so yes, absolutely. I mean, you know, and I realized this is a household, not a, but you know, the two can kind of operate in similar ways and I can see those motivations. So, you know, if it was straight up money, I mean, I, I, would've had an addition built on the back of my house by my 16 year old by now by offering her funds to do different tasks. It really, it really is. It continues to be about having a purpose, having, you know, in aligning that, like being able to make a difference.And I've interviewed a lot of people and, and, and it's, it's been consistent for a while. And I think that's even amplified, you know, I'm fascinated by generational sociology. And how do you make them all work? Cause how many do we have now that you're trying to, you know, satisfy their individual needs as people, but I think Steven nailed it. And it, it really is trying to connect those dots between the things they do every day. And what, what impact that actually has, or how does that drive to that compelling mission of the company they're working for and then grabbing their, you know, grabbing a piece of their, you know, their heart and their mind as they're doing that work, as opposed to them just doing the work or not doing it in many cases,Speaker 0 (13m 5s): Funny, you used to say, not doing the work. I was reading this article, just, just sort of prior to, so it is to this meeting and it was in the wall street journals. It was surrounds something called a new collar worker where it used to be. You can, well, for the most part still is you can divide workforces into two groups. You've got your blue collar workers and you've got your white collar workers, blue collar workers, of course, being the mechanics, construction workers, people who work with their hands and white collar people in an office. And what the article was talking about was how, because of the pandemic and because of shifting values, a lot of blue collar workers are trying to skill up so they can get an office job or a white collar job, so they can work from home.And I see, man, that's another shift that's going on in the world of work. W what, what do you think about this even? Cause the whole thing makes me think about, you got that shift from blue collar, white collar, and then you have multiple generations in the workforce at the same time. Like never before. I think it's like a whole new era. What would think that, what do you think this, this whole new era of work means for employers? Steven? That's a deep question. They don't want you to, they don't want you to solve world peace.Speaker 6 (14m 18s): The question.Speaker 0 (14m 20s): Yeah.Speaker 6 (14m 21s): Okay. I'll do my, I'll do my best here.Speaker 0 (14m 25s): No pressure.Speaker 6 (14m 28s): I believe that artificial intelligence and technology will augment a lot of activity happening in the quote unquote blue collar, as well as white collar workforces. So I think there's going to be a massive shift over the next 10 to 20 years in how people build careers, how people are educated. I believe that universal basic income will be implemented and that will be possible via taxation on corporations that implement these technologies, these, these artificial intelligence technologies and automation technologies to augment their workforce.And I believe that there will be a continual shift. We talked about passion. There will be a continual shift toward revamping, how companies look for employees and how employees go after jobs. And it will all be focused on passion. And that is because when you and everyone knows it and it, and it's, it's becoming more front and center all the time. When you connect with someone's heart and mind and soul, they can achieve anything.And it really doesn't matter what, you know, blue collar, white collar, that's not going to exist in the future. In my opinion, it's going to be about what are you passionate about? How can we augment the menial tasks around, you know, your role and what you do with AI and automations and how can we augment you as a human, to make you even better at achieving, you know, your personal goals, your passions, and how does that align with our company?Speaker 0 (16m 10s): So for me correctly, we're going to sort of become like Ironman from the Avengers. And we'll have all this technology working around us to get things done, sort of utopian, but also there's a lot of evidence to support that at the same time. W what do you think, Thomas, do you think we're all gonna become Ironman in the future when you go to work?Speaker 5 (16m 33s): But I do agree with Steven because what, you know, I think that's what you're bringing up is kind of the scare of the big, scary monster in the closet, right? Like, oh my goodness. It's, you know, the robots are going to take over, I think, quite differently. I actually think that that will free up people in their minds to innovate more, to, to accomplish more. You know, I mean, th th those there's many things that have to be done every day.I know it's going to be a bigger lift for, you know, for service, certain companies that require, you know, that require those types of things. I mean, you can't automate everything. However, I really do believe it's going to unleash just new levels of, you know, excellence, innovation everywhere in every workforce. You know, it's not a big, scary thing in the monster in a big, scary monster in the closet. It's, it's actually going to benefit everyone and on scale the entire workforce,Speaker 0 (17m 40s): Well, I certainly hope you are correct, but it makes me wonder that if that is the future, that we are heading towards a, What are employers failing today in this crazy new era that we can prevent ourselves from making, from making those mistakes in the future, if that's the future we're going to have, and then pose it to you first, Steven.Speaker 6 (17m 60s): Sure. There, there companies are failing by not indoctrinating. The fact that it's okay to fail into every level of their organization. People are so afraid to fail that it actually really inhibits growth. It inhibits success at every level of a company. The fear of failure still exists today. We deal with it every day with our clients. And I think it's something that has to be addressed.Speaker 0 (18m 27s): What do you say, Thomas?Speaker 5 (18m 30s): Well, I, you know, I don't want to speak broadly about, you know, all organizations, cause I think some are nailing it, but you know, let's start off first with, you know, the, the situation we find ourselves in today. And I think initially the, the kind of knee jerk is let's recreate consistency, visibility, and serendipity with technology. I E let's, you know, virtualize on-site practices, or let's add more monitoring systems or let's increase the number of meetings. People have to S you know, sit through to create, you know, to create that serendipity.I also think, you know, when you look at, you look at middle management in most companies just think of where those, you know, and I love, I listen, I'm the beneficiary of being promoted up through organization. So, I mean, I love that opportunity, but I think there's a lot of work that that could be done and needs to be done. And if you believe Gartner, you know, middle management may not exist in five years, but that, you know, it's, it's in the middle and at the top that there's, that I think there's a lot of work yet to be done, moving more towards those soft skills and empathy and asking, asking, not telling, and then for the, you know, executive leaders, you know, how do you align your company to your mission, your vision, your strategic objectives, your OKR is whatever you want, you know, how do you actually do that?How do you, how do you get that done? And that's the question that they, you know, that well, we help answer, but that is in my opinion, the keySpeaker 0 (20m 12s): Interesting, interesting, a lot to think about in that. I'm also wondering when you saying that I was wondering about the great resignation, this, this whole phenomenon of people just quitting their jobs, Willy nilly to, I don't know, pursue their own life, or just go into another field altogether. How do you think that has affected the way companies hire? Let me ask, let me ask, actually, may I, Steven this Steven, how do you think great resignations affected the way companies hire these daysSpeaker 6 (20m 40s): For our companies and everyone? We work with everyone. I know everyone, I talk to all executives that I can speak to. It's made it significantly more challenging, and there are a lot of things driving this, but this is kind of what I synthesize from what's going on the COVID money. And the unemployment policies enacted were sort of a micro experiment in universal basic income. And look at what happened.It's really a picture of the future and just how unprepared the economy is for our world, where the consumer holds all the cards, the employees hold, all the cards. Most people won't in the future, won't be desperate to perform any job. So it's going to be really important for companies to start to shift even faster to this kind of passion, you know, vision values based alignment and aligning roles to that. And again, bringing, bringing in automation and AI technology is to get rid of the work that makes people leave.Speaker 0 (21m 45s): What do you think Thomas, you you're agreeing with that?Speaker 5 (21m 48s): I actually do. And, you know, I would just add a couple of things and I'll try to keep this brief, but, you know, try. So we started off with, you know, you think about hiring and, you know, getting talent in this market and what are we at a deficit of 5 million job seekers right now with jobs that are available? You know, there's some things, you know, we started off with work-life separation, you know, as an example, I'm going to go to go for a run after work.Then it turned into work-life balance, which is what I grew up on. Right. Which is like, leave a little early today, go for that, to go for that run. But I'm going to work late tomorrow. Yup. Now, you know, and then it's gone into work-life integration. So, you know, today's busy. So I'll use a treadmill during lunch. I think we're, we're, we're we're companies could serve themselves very well. Is it focused on work-life harmonization? So we're, we're going for that run is actually part of their work. It helps them think more creatively and it gives them a mental break.So I think, you know, for me, that's a, that's a big one that, that I would point out. I think what a lot are doing, you're seeing in the forms of perks, benefits, micro incentive salaries. But quite frankly, you know, what we found out through our research is sometimes you can get people to do the money's not everything you can get people to do more for less, be more loyal for less, stay longer for less. You know what I'm not saying, pay people less, but it is definitely not the answer. Yes.Speaker 6 (23m 18s): I think it really like it really has to do with, and I'll just interject here real quick, you know, does self-actualization have anything to do with career for a human being? And that's like, that's the question you've got to answer for every single person, right. Is their passion to their passions aligned to like them working. Right. And the things that they do,Speaker 0 (23m 41s): I think a lot of it lends itself to too. I think a of what you two have said also leads to having a good understanding of their employees. I mean, it's one thing to, to brush every company for wire brush, but every company is different. So that makes me wonder How can companies learn to understand their employees better. Lemme, lemme ask you, ask you that Steven, How can companies learn to understand their employees better? So they can be all these things.Speaker 6 (24m 8s): I really think it's, it's not, you know, printing reports on employee performance and activity, you know, of the employees, web browser. I think that getting rid of top-down stack ranking structures in the organizational structure and, and really those things that stifle people and trust and by aligning everyone's work with what they love to do.Speaker 0 (24m 37s): Okay. Okay. Good answer. I mean, we're on a game show. Go. Good answer. Good answer. As you want to, you want to chime in on that?Speaker 5 (24m 47s): You know, I don't know that I'd have a whole lot to add on that one gym.Speaker 0 (24m 53s): Yeah. All right. Well, let, well, let me ask you this then. Okay. So understand the employees. I feel like there's a lot of trust in there too, because they have to feel comfortable enough to, I guess, reveal themselves enough to the employer for an employer to understand them. But, you know, I, I think about managers, like, let's say Michael Scott from the office who I love, I love the office, but I can imagine if Dwight took over the office for awhile and he, he would be untrusting this trusting of a lot of the employees there, especially if he was having one of his moments and he probably started spying on the employees to make sure they're working, how, how the spine, and it's sort of a wild question, but How does spying on your employees affect trust and quality of work?Because although I was joking about the office, I know there are some organizations who have gone out of their way, especially during the pandemic to spy on their employees because they're not in the office. And so they're scared. They're all at home watching Netflix and not really doing anything. How does that affect trust and quality of work? Let me, let me go first to Thomas Thomas, if you want.Speaker 5 (25m 58s): Wow. Yeah, it absolutely obliterates it there and people are, I need, I need people every day. Believe it or not. I didn't, I didn't really realize this was a thing until not too long ago, you know, mouse, movers and different things that people do, they know, and it, and there are statistics and I don't have it right in front of me, but it drives productivity the way, way down.So we, we kind of have a tagline within a Metaspark it's like, you know, don't spy on your employees, understand them. And, you know, we kind of stick with that and that could start, you know, quite frankly with a bit of a difference to your previous question in that interview process, you know, really how do you understand them from day one? And how does that carry through with their entire journey within, within an organization? I mean, how refreshing would, would it be to sit in an interview and, and really have someone understand you as opposed to, you know, and I know everybody interviews differently, but you know, if you look at kind of traditional interview formats, but sure.Yeah. The trust it's, you know, it's, it's, I don't trust you. So I'm going to spy on you and now I don't trust you even more. It's kind of a vicious circle that in a cycle we need to break,Speaker 6 (27m 16s): Right. And you know, it's really toxic to the culture. It's also pointless. And this is why people want a lot. I think a lot of organizations would refuse to do something like that. However, those that do believe that a person's activity inside of tools that are deployed in their homes are a reliable source of telemetry as to whether or not someone's working.And we have a totally different perspective on that. We believe that though, those organizations who think that way, just need to take a look at, you know, the actual work getting done and, you know, also what's important to them, right? So it's not about activity, it's about the goals and how have you aligned your people to the goals for their specific roles and how are you measuring performance against those goals? Because at the end of the day, that's all that matters. And if you make that the focus for people, they can be free, they can do what they want with their time.And there's an agreement as to what's going to get done at the end of the day, whether they do that, you know, at four o'clock in the morning, or they do that at eight o'clock at night, you know, when their kids are put to bed or whenever it's up to them. And if there's just that contract between, you know, a manager and employee and executive, you know, and a manager or whatever it is as to what's going to be achieved, by what time I think that's what matters. So what you need is a system to measure that, not look at the telemetry information of devices,Speaker 0 (28m 56s): Don't spy on your workers. Understand them could be on a t-shirt. Do you guys, do you guys already have that on a t-shirt?Speaker 5 (29m 2s): We just did. Yes. I'm here typing theSpeaker 6 (29m 8s): Perfect. Would you please place that orderSpeaker 0 (29m 12s): Not available in any store I've enjoyed this conversation so much. Let me throw one more question at you before we wrap it up. How do you think the work environment will change over the next 10 years? I'll go with Steven. You first. What do you, how do you think things are gonna change in the next 10 years?Speaker 6 (29m 29s): All right. So my view of the future again, is really optimistic. I don't subscribe to the, you know, AI is going to destroy everything. I think the first and foremost thing that's going to happen. And it is in our, you know, with our tools and our businesses. We are doing this with companies every day is automating the mundane tasks out of the workplace, right, getting that away from people. But, but I really believe that with AI, the value of a person will be their passion to companies, not turning them into a drone.And, you know, in the future, it'll really be up to us to determine our passion and how to map that passion and connect it with a company that's looking for that skillset. And I think it really means a complete revolution across all aspects of education, human resources, technology, how people build careers, like I was saying earlier, and the definition of, of a career will totally change. And I think, you know, lastly augmentation with technology, both from a business process standpoint, as well as a machine, you know, organic integration will give our passion superpowers.Speaker 0 (30m 43s): Nice. I like the superpower analogy I grew up on comics and superheroes. SoSpeaker 6 (30m 50s): That was for you, by the way,Speaker 0 (30m 52s): Every state that Tom is your prediction.Speaker 5 (30m 56s): You know, I, I, I can't obviously disagree with anything Steven said, because I share the same vision. I do think there may be a fair amount of, you know, we've all heard of the gig economy. I think there'll be a fair amount of that. Emerging not only inside organizations is a free people up to do things beyond like, Hey, here's your task, you know, here's your 10 tasks. You're, you're challenged with, let them expand their horizons in a gig fashion across the company they're working for fast forward, even further, that could be cross-company, you know, where someone's using their skillset skillset for, you know, for, for many things.SoSpeaker 0 (31m 35s): Very, very cool. Stephen Costigan, Thomas Fisher, you have shared a lot of valuable insights and opinion. I appreciate it. I know the audience does, if you, if someone want to get in contact with you and learn more about you yourself personally, and your, your business and so forth, how can they reach out to you online?Speaker 5 (31m 56s): Well, they can either go, well, I would love if they hit me up directly, we'd love to, we'd love to show them what we're doing. And you know, my direct email is T Fisher, T F I S H E R at Metaspark, M E T a S P a R k.io, and, or go to our website and check us out. You can request a demo there as well, and that's just www dot Metaspark dot IO.Speaker 0 (32m 25s): Okay. Steven, how can we direct your fan club?Speaker 6 (32m 30s): So my email address is S C O S T I G a N at Metaspark dot IO.Speaker 0 (32m 38s): Very cool. Again, you gentlemen, for being on the tripod podcast. I appreciate it. I appreciate you. And thank you very much. Thank you so much. Thank you, Jim. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you a thousand times. Thank you for listening and subscribing to our podcast.If you have any questions, comments, or suggestions, please send them to us. You can reach us at TribePod that's T R I B E P O D at Proactive Talent dot com. We look forward to hearing from you.
 
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