June 10, 2022
Vince Abramo discusses coaching communication and conflict resolution with TribePod host - Jim Stroud. Vince is based in Hawaii, which Jim found fascinating. Are the Human Resources issues in Hawaii different from the issues faced in the continental United States? How are the myriad of cultures in Hawaii affecting the workplace? And do managers need translators to speak to their own employees in Hawaii? The answers may surprise you.
ABOUT OUR GUEST: VINCE ABRAMO
Vince Abramo finds joy in witnessing the change of individuals and groups when they are engaged in healthy dialogue. She has a heart for small businesses and supports the missions of nonprofits to fulfill the community’s needs. She has a master's degree in Public Administration, and a bachelor's in intercommunication and public relations with certifications in conflict resolution, nonprofit management, and volunteer management from the University of Hawaii. She a certified coach and trainer through the John Maxwell Team, Brain Health Coaching through the Amen Clinic, and Neuroencoding. She resides on the island of Oahu with her husband Nick and has three wonderful adult children carving their own journey. | Contact Vince Abramo via her website at https://bambooshoot.co/ QUESTIONS DISCUSSED IN THIS PODCAST
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How can we recognize the signs of bad workplace communication?
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What are common communication problems you see across organizations?
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How can managers motivate their teams when they’re struggling to get results?
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How can managers make meetings more engaging for the staff?
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What is the best way to handle micromanagers?
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People in offices tend to bring up political topics. How should employees handle political conversations in the workplace?
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What are your top 5 tips when you are in a middle of a conflict?
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If you could give any advice to the HR Community, what would it be and why?
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PODCAST ARCHIVES
PODCAST TRANSCRIPT
Jim Stroud (6s):
Hello, hello, hello and hi. Jim Stroud here with another episode of TribePod. My guest today is Vince Abramo. Who is she? Vince finds joy in witnessing the change of individuals and groups when they are engaged in healthy dialogue. She has a heart for small businesses and supports the missions of nonprofits to fulfill the community's needs. She has a master's degree in public administration and a bachelor's in intercommunication and public relations with certifications in conflict resolution, nonprofit management, and volunteer management from the University of Hawaii.
Jim Stroud (46s):
She's a certified coach and trainer due to John Maxwell Team Brain Health Coaching through the Amen Clinic and Neuroencoding. She resides on the island of Oahu with her husband, Nick, and has three wonderful adult children carving their own journey. I enjoyed this conversation with Vince. She is such an approachable, personable, and professional person. We talked for a few moments before the podcast, certainly talk alive during the podcast, and a little bit afterwards. I was sorry for it all to end, but fortunately for you, you can hear some of what we talked about in the next episode of TribePod, which begins right now.
TribePod (1m 39s):
You are listening to TribePod, a podcast series of interviews of interest to the HR community. It is hosted by Courtney Lane, produced by Jim Stroud, sponsored by Proactive Talent, and enjoyed by you. Today's episode begins right after this.
Proactive Talent - Male Speaker (2m 3s):
Let's face it. We're in a whole new world now. We know that the reactive old way of hiring in the post and pray model is expensive and it's getting more expensive every year. What employer brand does is it is a long-term strategy that will help you get better at hiring faster and at a higher quality.
Proactive Talent - Female Speaker (2m 23s):
75% of candidates will research a company before even applying, and an 86% of candidates will not work for a company that has a bad or non-existent employer brand. Some of the many benefits of having an effective and strong employer brand include doubling the amount of applicants you get per job posts, decreasing your cost per hire by 40%, improving employee retention by 60%, and overall just yield better Glassdoor reviews.
Proactive Talent - Male Speaker (2m 50s):
We know that companies with stronger employer brands spend about 10% less overall for talent. Proactive Talent helps out clients with their Employer Brand like going in and working with them in several phases to learn more about the culture, the people, what are the important values to each and every employee, and then to share that story and refresh the Employer Brand, or build it from the ground. Now, the benefits of having an effective Employer Brand is that you're going to be able to attract the talent that you really want to join your company and not just people who would be simply applying for whatever requisitions you have out there. They generally love your message, love your culture, and are there to be with them for the long haul.
Proactive Talent (3m 31s):
For more information on Proactive Talent, visit them online at ProactiveTalent.com or click the link in the podcast description.
Jim Stroud (3m 38s):
Hello, and welcome once again to another exciting episode of TribePod. Depending on when you are listening, good morning, good afternoon, or good evening. Thank you so much for being there. Today, you're in for a very special treat because we have a very special guest. Special guest, tell us who are you and what do you do?
Vince Abramo (3m 54s):
First of all, thank you, Jim, for having me on this podcast. I really appreciate it. My name is Vince Abramo. I hail from the island of a Oahu, Hawaii. What I do as a profession, I am a communication and leadership coach. My specialty is conflict resolution. I'm a builder of culture in organizations and create community also in businesses.
Jim Stroud (4m 18s):
Nice, nice. Now, I don't associate HR with Hawaii, so that's a new one on me.
Vince Abramo (4m 24s):
There's a lot of HR in Hawaii, especially in the tourism industry, and seemingly tech industry is coming up here. A lot of the tech owners are living here now so it's changing the landscape of Hawaii and how they do business now.
Jim Stroud (4m 48s):
Wow. I'm curious. I wonder what type of HR issues that people continue with in Hawaii that may seem peculiar to people here in the states?
Vince Abramo (4m 60s):
That's a great question. Because of the Pacific Islander and Asian culture that has influenced Hawaii, it's passiveness with a lot of people. People take that Aloha for granted and they feel that when people are doing business with people in Hawaii, they can steamroll or they can insert themselves into the culture or the business community when it is a lot of them to be thoughtful about what they need to think about. Again, maybe, English as a second language for many of the people that work here.
Vince Abramo (5m 45s):
They need to have that thought process. They're, of course, trying to create an opinion, trying to gather facts, and then they are able to share, but a lot of people start to push back on them and then they will retreat. They will have that passiveness about the culture here in the workplace.
Jim Stroud (6m 5s):
Interesting. Here in the states, there is a lot of attention around DEI (diversity, equity and inclusion). Is that a big thing in Hawaii?
Vince Abramo (6m 15s):
It's actually a natural thing in Hawaii, diversity, equity, inclusion, because of the different diverse cultures that came. Of course, the Hawaiians were here first and then incorporating them. Then all the other cultures came in because of the plantation era and the shipping, whaling era. That's how we have such a rich diverse culture. You'll see like Senator Inouye, a lot of Asian and a lot of Pacific Islanders are taking up a lot of seat in the government and being CEOs and presidents in large companies here.
Jim Stroud (6m 57s):
Interesting, so many different cultures and I would imagine so many different communication styles going on. There's a potential for bad workplace communication. How can we recognize the signs of bad workplace communication?
Vince Abramo (7m 11s):
Sure. There's a lot of things that could be going on when the staff is not answering your emails or answering your text. Some of them may be even supervisors that are micromanaging other people. That's a huge sign, a big red flag about bad workplace communication. When a deadline is not being met, what is going on with that person that they're can't meet the deadline? Gossip is another one. When people feel criticized, defensive, or, again, that passiveness, feeling silent that they can't express themselves, or feeling misunderstood.
Jim Stroud (7m 50s):
Interesting. What are some common communication problems you see across organizations? Others that you can mention besides what you've already said.
Vince Abramo (8m 3s):
Sure. There's barriers that we have to think about remote work, a hybrid. Working people may have different schedules, again, different communication platforms. By the way, I recommend not to have too many different communication platforms. Maybe even, again, I'm talking about language differences.
Jim Stroud (8m 23s):
That's interesting. I know if I were to visit a hospital, I know they have different translators available because they have people of all backgrounds coming to the hospital. I don't imagine a workplace would need a translator beyond something like that, would they? Is that how it is in Hawaii in certain aspects or am I just thinking crazy?
Vince Abramo (8m 49s):
Oh, no. Certain aspects, it does help to have someone that can translate, especially with the technical language or something that may be a part of their culture that we don't understand. We've been so Americanized here that it seems like a lot of one-way communication. We don't give a lot of room for the people that may have English as a second language and to give them time to respond. They may respond in their own language first and then respond in English.
Jim Stroud (9m 22s):
Everyone pretty much speaks English in the workplace in Hawaii, right?
Vince Abramo (9m 29s):
Yes. I would say there's a small percentage that will speak Japanese. We have a great Japanese influx that came in, especially tourism. There's Chinese, also Cantonese. You find pockets of workplaces that do allow or really celebrate different languages at the workplace.
Jim Stroud (9m 47s):
Wow. I'm so curious now. There's so many different languages, pan-Asian languages there in a way, but English is the dominant language?
Vince Abramo (10m 3s):
Yes.
Jim Stroud (10m 4s):
Is it required that every worker speak English to work in Hawaii? I imagined it would be.
Vince Abramo (10m 10s):
No.
Jim Stroud (10m 10s):
It's not?
Vince Abramo (10m 10s):
No.
Jim Stroud (10m 10s):
Okay, it's not. How does a company deal with that? I imagine it would be helpful for everyone to speak the same language inside the company, right?
Vince Abramo (10m 18s):
Yes, yes. Because of the way that our culture is set up here in Hawaii, they may have English to an extent. They can communicate in that way, but if there is a difficulty for them to carry on the conversation, or again, may be too technical language, of course, you want someone to help step in. There's a state law, I think, maybe a federal law, but we have, in every government program, they're allowed a translator and it could be even like Micronesian languages, Chuukese, Marshalese, things like that. Even the might new languages that people don't think about, we do have accommodations for them.
Jim Stroud (11m 2s):
I could see that when dealing with a customer facing issue, but if I'm a manager talking to an employee, that could be a bit bothersome, I would think, to get a translator, to talk to my worker. Does that kind of issue come up in Hawaii often where a manager needs a translator to talk to his employee?
Vince Abramo (11m 29s):
My friend is actually the interim director for ACLU. He's going to become the director, but I would imagine that, of course, you would employ someone that you can relate to and have a great communication rapport with, and speaking of farming or even in the travel industry, yes, you may have to have a translator come in. I imagine like a lot of the tourism industry, they do have really great translators.
Jim Stroud (11m 60s):
Okay. Okay. Interesting. Interesting. It's one of those things that I don't think about here at the States, but it's different strokes, different folks. That's interesting.
Vince Abramo (12m 10s):
Yes, and it's so rich, it's so diverse, and you become more accepting of other cultures.
Jim Stroud (12m 19s):
Okay, yes. I can see how being inclusive has its advantages, but also, it also makes me wonder, you got to have something that keeps the company together, an underlying culture, and usually that's English, but yes. Interesting.
Vince Abramo (12m 36s):
I don't know about Atlanta, but here it's food. Anytime there's food, that's the same language everywhere.
Jim Stroud (12m 43s):
I hear you on that. How can managers motivate their teams when they're struggling to get results, you think?
Vince Abramo (12m 50s):
The first thing is to understand if you're setting clear goals and then also go back to your mission and your vision of your company. You want to encourage teamwork and create a healthy environment for dialogue. What kind of culture have you set up? Is there a sense of belonging? Do you get staff input? Have you set up regular check-ins? Do you give positive feedback? Do you reward the team? Do you provide opportunities for development? Of course, avoid controlling language and minimize coercive controls like unrealistic deadlines.
Vince Abramo (13m 30s):
"Hey, I know it's a tight deadline, but having your skills on this team will be so helpful to our client." Having that type of language, really relating to the team member or the employee.
Jim Stroud (13m 44s):
I have not visited Hawaii so it's probably another reason why I'm so fascinated.
Vince Abramo (13m 51s):
You will be here soon because I'll be introducing you to a lot of people here in Hawaii.
Jim Stroud (13m 60s):
I need a visit there. I'm getting now an image of a mini United nations place there. I'm looking inside of an imaginary workplace and I have these different backgrounds. I'll represent it there. I'm wondering. If I'm the manager, how can I make those meetings more engaging for the staff when everyone is coming from so many different backgrounds in this one area? How can I make the meetings more engaging you think?
Vince Abramo (14m 31s):
In Hawaii, again, food.
Jim Stroud (14m 32s):
Just feed everybody.
Vince Abramo (14m 32s):
Just feed everybody, right? That's a common language. Then what I like to do is think of an icebreaker and don't make those cheesy icebreakers. Make it like something fun, keep it fun. I would rotate facilitators to every meeting that you have. If you have weekly meetings, I really encourage rotating a facilitator and then challenge the problem solving time for the group so they feel like they're all engaged in the meeting. Of course, stay focused, and again, food and fun always makes it great.
Jim Stroud (15m 5s):
I liked that idea of switching up facilitators because I've been in several meetings where, not in my present employer, of course, but I've been in some meetings from like, "I just want this meeting to be over so I can get back to work." I have tuned out the meeting, not really paying attention. I'm just waiting for keywords, someone to say something that sparks my interest, so then I can jump in because it's relevant to me. If we switch facilitators, to your example, and have different people inside the group facilitate the meeting, that definitely would keep people more engaged in what's going on.
Jim Stroud (15m 45s):
That's a very good idea. I may have to pass that one on.
Vince Abramo (15m 48s):
Yes, and then, of course, you create a rise of leadership and people become an owner of the meeting when they are expecting to become a facilitator.
Jim Stroud (15m 57s):
Okay. In a way, you're developing leadership skills at the same time as well.
Vince Abramo (16m 1s):
Yes, exactly.
Jim Stroud (16m 2s):
Ah, very sly, very wise. Okay. Let me throw out a management question at you since you're on a roll. What's the best way to handle micromanagers? Those people who have to know everything you're doing at every moment of the day, especially in this remote work atmosphere we're all in.
Vince Abramo (16m 20s):
Yes, so micromanagers need a lot of trust and you want to work on building trust with the micromanagers. You want to understand where that behavior is coming from. If they've been burned by another employee before or if they've handled it all by themselves before, where is that coming from? Understanding that is really important, especially in conflict. Ask for feedback instead of always being micromanaged by that person. Understand the expectation, have that rapport with them, and suggest an accountability system. They'll feel like they can trust you, that you are checking in with them.
Jim Stroud (17m 1s):
Well, let me ask you this, because this happened 2021, when the pandemic hit right here. Everybody knows the one I'm talking about there. When everybody started working from home, companies that were not used to their employees working from home started buying all this spyware. I don't know if this happened in Hawaii, but they buy a lot of spyware so they can track to make sure that workers are actually working in that watching Netflix all day. Did you have that issue in Hawaii?
Jim Stroud (17m 42s):
Did it happen?
Vince Abramo (17m 45s):
Yes, yes.
Jim Stroud (17m 46s):
Wow. Wow. Tell me about that. How did people handle that? How did that work?
Vince Abramo (17m 52s):
Sorry, my notifications are not turned off. A lot of people started complaining and that's when you see a little bit of an Exodus too of people not feeling like they can be trusted to do their work. The ones that are great communicators, they share that, "Hey, I don't need to be micromanage or having someone check up on me because I need that freedom to do this work and for you to trust me to do it." I'm able to do the work if I'm not always being tracked.
Jim Stroud (18m 27s):
Okay. Okay. Interesting. Interesting. I've always wondered. I'm not a litigious person, so I don't keep up with all the laws and that stuff, but I wondered if there were some trend where some people were suing employees, or something, over privacy issues, because if everyone was working from home, you get to see inside their home by virtue of all these zoom meetings, team meetings, and things like that. I wonder if any legal issues had arisen because of that. Have you heard anything like that?
Vince Abramo (19m 4s):
I haven't heard anything. Again, My friend is the interim director for ACLU here, and I think he keeps those litigious things private. I can imagine that it is that tracking thing that is really pushing the boundary because it is home. It's home and work at the same time, but yes, having that camera or that spyware.
Jim Stroud (19m 27s):
It's like the whole big brother's watching you at all times.
Vince Abramo (19m 33s):
Understandable. You should know that you are employing someone that you do trust to do the work.
Jim Stroud (19m 40s):
Yes, because the question is, if you can't trust them, why hire them?
Vince Abramo (19m 43s):
Exactly.
Jim Stroud (19m 44s):
That's a wow. Yes. Something else that is really big here in the States, I want to see how it goes in Hawaii because I'm so curious. Over here, there is a lot of attention on politics. You cannot escape politics in United States. Even if you try to, it manages to rear its ugly head in some form or fashion. People up here tend to bring up political topics in a workplace.
Jim Stroud (20m 25s):
Some people engage but most people try to stay out of it, but it comes up. How should employees handle political conversations in workplace in your estimation?
Vince Abramo (20m 38s):
Sure. Speaking to human resource professionals, they have already probably set up an accountability system or a policy around not speaking about politics or having political things at the workplace. Having those policy in place, revisiting that policy, and as an individual, you can pack this active listening, again, thinking about that micromanager again, having empathy for that person and where they're coming from. It might help you to learn and grow, really listening to the other person's opinion. If it is a hot button subject and you know this person is going to get angry over it, then you don't want to bring it up.
Vince Abramo (21m 21s):
Of course, knowing when to walk away from that person, but hopefully, that policy is being reinforced in the workplace.
Jim Stroud (21m 33s):
Okay. Okay. Okay. I know you have a background in conflict resolution. Now, I'm imagining that even in a peaceful state of Hawaii, there are some conflicts that come about in the workplace. What are some tips you can give me about how to handle a conflict in the workplace?
Vince Abramo (21m 56s):
Sure. People think of conflict as people yelling at each other, right? Conflict also happens when someone is avoiding you or passive aggressive. That is actually conflict too because they're not able to have a voice. When you're feeling frustrated with the person that's not speaking up or when you're feeling frustrated with a person who is arguing with you, you want to, again, separate the person from the behavior and you don't know, again, where that person is coming from, what their conflict mode was like in their childhood.
Vince Abramo (22m 38s):
They may be answering some things or responding to things that were not addressed in their childhood. That's the only way that they know how to respond to conflict. You want to ask yourself if you're contributing to or rewarding and encouraging the behavior unknowingly because it's a pattern. Notice the pattern and why does this type of conflict bother you?
Jim Stroud (23m 3s):
Interesting.
Vince Abramo (23m 3s):
Yes, super interesting. You want to be curious, of course, again, about the behavior and the mechanism. What are the triggers that are bringing this up for the other person? What are the triggers for you that this conflict is happening? You want to ask questions and never judge. Be really, really, really curious, have open-ended questions, utilize active listening, and have it safe for the other person. If the person needs time to really gather their thoughts or you need time, revisit again, make sure it's on the calendar, and have a meeting. Use every faculty you can for emotional intelligence, increase your emotional intelligence, and have engaging conversation and use your active listening skills.
Jim Stroud (23m 47s):
Emotional intelligence, that seems to be a vanishing skill. Have you noticed that from your side of the world? Is it a management skill?
Vince Abramo (23m 58s):
Yes, especially when it comes to social media, because when people feel safe and they can comment on anything. Well, for me, I'm like, "Why is this person responding this way? Where is this coming from? What's happening that they feel like they have to voice it in this way?" It's, again, thinking about their emotional intelligence and why don't they dial it back? Yes, sometimes, I do call out people in the middle of a mediation or facilitation. I'm like, "Hey, let's take a little break here.
Vince Abramo (24m 42s):
Let's make sure that anger is not rearing its head," because anger is a choice. Emotional intelligence can come up before anger and say, "Hey, I really need to take a step back. I'm feeling my heart racing. I'm feeling like I'm about to push the enter button on making a comment in Twitter right now." Taking that step back and really assessing what you're responding to.
Jim Stroud (25m 9s):
I like when you said anger is a choice. It made me think about a certain speeding ticket I received once in the past. I was really angry at someone. I was trying to zoom to pick them up from the mall, but I won't mention her name. Well, anyway, I was angry at somebody and I was zooming through the mall to pick them up. Then my wife complained, and I drive too fast sometimes. I can't help, this is how I drive, but the corner of my eye, I saw a police car. All of a sudden, I could slow down. All of a sudden, I could come to a complete stop because the policeman there.
Jim Stroud (25m 54s):
Then she says, "Oh, so you can control yourself."
Vince Abramo (26m 1s):
Yes, practicing that emotional intelligence. I have people's practice the stop technique, which is a Neuro-encoding practice of what is the other side of negativity. We don't want to say positive psychology and things like that, but accurate psychology. What is really realistic right now?
Jim Stroud (26m 20s):
What is really realistic? That's interesting too. That makes me think about so many times. Sometimes I lose faith in humanity when I see things like this, when someone has is in a car accident or someone is being accosted or something and people stop and they recorded with their phones, but they don't step in to help the person. I don't know if it's a generational thing because usually I see younger people doing this, but it's just weird to me that people can stop and record something and post it on social media, but they won't step in to help somebody when they obviously need help.
Jim Stroud (27m 2s):
Have you seen that? Have you noticed that too?
Vince Abramo (27m 6s):
Yes. Again, ask why? Did that person have an event that they could not go to? We are in a litigious society, right? Maybe, they don't want to step in because they don't want to be sued for something that they were trying to good Samaritan law. Thinking of those scenarios of why that person is not stepping in. Why are they just observing? Why did they bring up their phone? Having that understanding, and then you're creating a scotoma opportunity to insert some teaching for someone else.
Jim Stroud (27m 42s):
Yes. It makes me sort of wonder when you think about these things outside of HR, but they definitely spilled into HR in some way that those people are people and how people act outside of work will sometimes come into the workplace. Do you often feel that sometimes that to be a professional HR person, you have to have a background in psychology. You have to be a bit of a therapist in a way as well or kindergarten teacher background sometimes? Do you feel that way?
Vince Abramo (28m 11s):
Yes. Any kind of development that you can increase your skills on is so important, whether it's psychology or even any kind of coaching skills that you can have. I'm also coming from that place of empathy, of being vulnerable yourself and having that opportunity for that person to, again, have a safe space to communicate with you.
Jim Stroud (28m 35s):
I like that. Is there any more advice you give to maybe the HR community overall? If so, what would it be?
Vince Abramo (28m 43s):
I would advise any company, especially in HR, to evaluate their communication every year. What are the processes and systems, and create a dispute resolution system. What does that look like? When there is something that comes up, like a conflict, how do you handle that? What are the next steps? You have something that can look at and revisit that every year also in how you can improve.
Jim Stroud (29m 10s):
Nice, nice. I feel like I've learned a lot and I think I've gotten a little bit closer to Hawaii now.
Vince Abramo (29m 18s):
You are. You are actually closer than you think. Sounds like your family is coming within the next year.
Jim Stroud (29m 26s):
You got to give me some hula lessons if I manage that. Thank you so much for your time. I do appreciate it. If someone wanted to get in contact with you, specifically, and continue this conversation, how could they find you online?
Vince Abramo (29m 42s):
Sure. I'm on bamboo shoot and that's a website. I'm also on Instagram and Twitter, bamboo shoot high, bamboo shoot on Facebook, and then they can check me out all my classes on event bright as well.
Jim Stroud (29m 55s):
Very good. Vince Abramo, thank you so much for your time. You are appreciated.
Vince Abramo (29m 58s):
Thank you. Aloha.
Jim Stroud (29m 59s):
Yes, aloha. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. A thousand times, thank you for listening and subscribing to our podcast. If you have any questions, comments, or suggestions, please send them to us. You can reach us at TribePod@ProactiveTalent.com. We look forward to hearing from you.
Hello, hello, hello and hi. Jim Stroud here with another episode of TribePod. My guest today is Vince Abramo. Who is she? Vince finds joy in witnessing the change of individuals and groups when they are engaged in healthy dialogue. She has a heart for small businesses and supports the missions of nonprofits to fulfill the community's needs. She has a master's degree in public administration and a bachelor's in intercommunication and public relations with certifications in conflict resolution, nonprofit management, and volunteer management from the University of Hawaii.
Jim Stroud (46s):
She's a certified coach and trainer due to John Maxwell Team Brain Health Coaching through the Amen Clinic and Neuroencoding. She resides on the island of Oahu with her husband, Nick, and has three wonderful adult children carving their own journey. I enjoyed this conversation with Vince. She is such an approachable, personable, and professional person. We talked for a few moments before the podcast, certainly talk alive during the podcast, and a little bit afterwards. I was sorry for it all to end, but fortunately for you, you can hear some of what we talked about in the next episode of TribePod, which begins right now.
TribePod (1m 39s):
You are listening to TribePod, a podcast series of interviews of interest to the HR community. It is hosted by Courtney Lane, produced by Jim Stroud, sponsored by Proactive Talent, and enjoyed by you. Today's episode begins right after this.
Proactive Talent - Male Speaker (2m 3s):
Let's face it. We're in a whole new world now. We know that the reactive old way of hiring in the post and pray model is expensive and it's getting more expensive every year. What employer brand does is it is a long-term strategy that will help you get better at hiring faster and at a higher quality.
Proactive Talent - Female Speaker (2m 23s):
75% of candidates will research a company before even applying, and an 86% of candidates will not work for a company that has a bad or non-existent employer brand. Some of the many benefits of having an effective and strong employer brand include doubling the amount of applicants you get per job posts, decreasing your cost per hire by 40%, improving employee retention by 60%, and overall just yield better Glassdoor reviews.
Proactive Talent - Male Speaker (2m 50s):
We know that companies with stronger employer brands spend about 10% less overall for talent. Proactive Talent helps out clients with their Employer Brand like going in and working with them in several phases to learn more about the culture, the people, what are the important values to each and every employee, and then to share that story and refresh the Employer Brand, or build it from the ground. Now, the benefits of having an effective Employer Brand is that you're going to be able to attract the talent that you really want to join your company and not just people who would be simply applying for whatever requisitions you have out there. They generally love your message, love your culture, and are there to be with them for the long haul.
Proactive Talent (3m 31s):
For more information on Proactive Talent, visit them online at ProactiveTalent.com or click the link in the podcast description.
Jim Stroud (3m 38s):
Hello, and welcome once again to another exciting episode of TribePod. Depending on when you are listening, good morning, good afternoon, or good evening. Thank you so much for being there. Today, you're in for a very special treat because we have a very special guest. Special guest, tell us who are you and what do you do?
Vince Abramo (3m 54s):
First of all, thank you, Jim, for having me on this podcast. I really appreciate it. My name is Vince Abramo. I hail from the island of a Oahu, Hawaii. What I do as a profession, I am a communication and leadership coach. My specialty is conflict resolution. I'm a builder of culture in organizations and create community also in businesses.
Jim Stroud (4m 18s):
Nice, nice. Now, I don't associate HR with Hawaii, so that's a new one on me.
Vince Abramo (4m 24s):
There's a lot of HR in Hawaii, especially in the tourism industry, and seemingly tech industry is coming up here. A lot of the tech owners are living here now so it's changing the landscape of Hawaii and how they do business now.
Jim Stroud (4m 48s):
Wow. I'm curious. I wonder what type of HR issues that people continue with in Hawaii that may seem peculiar to people here in the states?
Vince Abramo (4m 60s):
That's a great question. Because of the Pacific Islander and Asian culture that has influenced Hawaii, it's passiveness with a lot of people. People take that Aloha for granted and they feel that when people are doing business with people in Hawaii, they can steamroll or they can insert themselves into the culture or the business community when it is a lot of them to be thoughtful about what they need to think about. Again, maybe, English as a second language for many of the people that work here.
Vince Abramo (5m 45s):
They need to have that thought process. They're, of course, trying to create an opinion, trying to gather facts, and then they are able to share, but a lot of people start to push back on them and then they will retreat. They will have that passiveness about the culture here in the workplace.
Jim Stroud (6m 5s):
Interesting. Here in the states, there is a lot of attention around DEI (diversity, equity and inclusion). Is that a big thing in Hawaii?
Vince Abramo (6m 15s):
It's actually a natural thing in Hawaii, diversity, equity, inclusion, because of the different diverse cultures that came. Of course, the Hawaiians were here first and then incorporating them. Then all the other cultures came in because of the plantation era and the shipping, whaling era. That's how we have such a rich diverse culture. You'll see like Senator Inouye, a lot of Asian and a lot of Pacific Islanders are taking up a lot of seat in the government and being CEOs and presidents in large companies here.
Jim Stroud (6m 57s):
Interesting, so many different cultures and I would imagine so many different communication styles going on. There's a potential for bad workplace communication. How can we recognize the signs of bad workplace communication?
Vince Abramo (7m 11s):
Sure. There's a lot of things that could be going on when the staff is not answering your emails or answering your text. Some of them may be even supervisors that are micromanaging other people. That's a huge sign, a big red flag about bad workplace communication. When a deadline is not being met, what is going on with that person that they're can't meet the deadline? Gossip is another one. When people feel criticized, defensive, or, again, that passiveness, feeling silent that they can't express themselves, or feeling misunderstood.
Jim Stroud (7m 50s):
Interesting. What are some common communication problems you see across organizations? Others that you can mention besides what you've already said.
Vince Abramo (8m 3s):
Sure. There's barriers that we have to think about remote work, a hybrid. Working people may have different schedules, again, different communication platforms. By the way, I recommend not to have too many different communication platforms. Maybe even, again, I'm talking about language differences.
Jim Stroud (8m 23s):
That's interesting. I know if I were to visit a hospital, I know they have different translators available because they have people of all backgrounds coming to the hospital. I don't imagine a workplace would need a translator beyond something like that, would they? Is that how it is in Hawaii in certain aspects or am I just thinking crazy?
Vince Abramo (8m 49s):
Oh, no. Certain aspects, it does help to have someone that can translate, especially with the technical language or something that may be a part of their culture that we don't understand. We've been so Americanized here that it seems like a lot of one-way communication. We don't give a lot of room for the people that may have English as a second language and to give them time to respond. They may respond in their own language first and then respond in English.
Jim Stroud (9m 22s):
Everyone pretty much speaks English in the workplace in Hawaii, right?
Vince Abramo (9m 29s):
Yes. I would say there's a small percentage that will speak Japanese. We have a great Japanese influx that came in, especially tourism. There's Chinese, also Cantonese. You find pockets of workplaces that do allow or really celebrate different languages at the workplace.
Jim Stroud (9m 47s):
Wow. I'm so curious now. There's so many different languages, pan-Asian languages there in a way, but English is the dominant language?
Vince Abramo (10m 3s):
Yes.
Jim Stroud (10m 4s):
Is it required that every worker speak English to work in Hawaii? I imagined it would be.
Vince Abramo (10m 10s):
No.
Jim Stroud (10m 10s):
It's not?
Vince Abramo (10m 10s):
No.
Jim Stroud (10m 10s):
Okay, it's not. How does a company deal with that? I imagine it would be helpful for everyone to speak the same language inside the company, right?
Vince Abramo (10m 18s):
Yes, yes. Because of the way that our culture is set up here in Hawaii, they may have English to an extent. They can communicate in that way, but if there is a difficulty for them to carry on the conversation, or again, may be too technical language, of course, you want someone to help step in. There's a state law, I think, maybe a federal law, but we have, in every government program, they're allowed a translator and it could be even like Micronesian languages, Chuukese, Marshalese, things like that. Even the might new languages that people don't think about, we do have accommodations for them.
Jim Stroud (11m 2s):
I could see that when dealing with a customer facing issue, but if I'm a manager talking to an employee, that could be a bit bothersome, I would think, to get a translator, to talk to my worker. Does that kind of issue come up in Hawaii often where a manager needs a translator to talk to his employee?
Vince Abramo (11m 29s):
My friend is actually the interim director for ACLU. He's going to become the director, but I would imagine that, of course, you would employ someone that you can relate to and have a great communication rapport with, and speaking of farming or even in the travel industry, yes, you may have to have a translator come in. I imagine like a lot of the tourism industry, they do have really great translators.
Jim Stroud (11m 60s):
Okay. Okay. Interesting. Interesting. It's one of those things that I don't think about here at the States, but it's different strokes, different folks. That's interesting.
Vince Abramo (12m 10s):
Yes, and it's so rich, it's so diverse, and you become more accepting of other cultures.
Jim Stroud (12m 19s):
Okay, yes. I can see how being inclusive has its advantages, but also, it also makes me wonder, you got to have something that keeps the company together, an underlying culture, and usually that's English, but yes. Interesting.
Vince Abramo (12m 36s):
I don't know about Atlanta, but here it's food. Anytime there's food, that's the same language everywhere.
Jim Stroud (12m 43s):
I hear you on that. How can managers motivate their teams when they're struggling to get results, you think?
Vince Abramo (12m 50s):
The first thing is to understand if you're setting clear goals and then also go back to your mission and your vision of your company. You want to encourage teamwork and create a healthy environment for dialogue. What kind of culture have you set up? Is there a sense of belonging? Do you get staff input? Have you set up regular check-ins? Do you give positive feedback? Do you reward the team? Do you provide opportunities for development? Of course, avoid controlling language and minimize coercive controls like unrealistic deadlines.
Vince Abramo (13m 30s):
"Hey, I know it's a tight deadline, but having your skills on this team will be so helpful to our client." Having that type of language, really relating to the team member or the employee.
Jim Stroud (13m 44s):
I have not visited Hawaii so it's probably another reason why I'm so fascinated.
Vince Abramo (13m 51s):
You will be here soon because I'll be introducing you to a lot of people here in Hawaii.
Jim Stroud (13m 60s):
I need a visit there. I'm getting now an image of a mini United nations place there. I'm looking inside of an imaginary workplace and I have these different backgrounds. I'll represent it there. I'm wondering. If I'm the manager, how can I make those meetings more engaging for the staff when everyone is coming from so many different backgrounds in this one area? How can I make the meetings more engaging you think?
Vince Abramo (14m 31s):
In Hawaii, again, food.
Jim Stroud (14m 32s):
Just feed everybody.
Vince Abramo (14m 32s):
Just feed everybody, right? That's a common language. Then what I like to do is think of an icebreaker and don't make those cheesy icebreakers. Make it like something fun, keep it fun. I would rotate facilitators to every meeting that you have. If you have weekly meetings, I really encourage rotating a facilitator and then challenge the problem solving time for the group so they feel like they're all engaged in the meeting. Of course, stay focused, and again, food and fun always makes it great.
Jim Stroud (15m 5s):
I liked that idea of switching up facilitators because I've been in several meetings where, not in my present employer, of course, but I've been in some meetings from like, "I just want this meeting to be over so I can get back to work." I have tuned out the meeting, not really paying attention. I'm just waiting for keywords, someone to say something that sparks my interest, so then I can jump in because it's relevant to me. If we switch facilitators, to your example, and have different people inside the group facilitate the meeting, that definitely would keep people more engaged in what's going on.
Jim Stroud (15m 45s):
That's a very good idea. I may have to pass that one on.
Vince Abramo (15m 48s):
Yes, and then, of course, you create a rise of leadership and people become an owner of the meeting when they are expecting to become a facilitator.
Jim Stroud (15m 57s):
Okay. In a way, you're developing leadership skills at the same time as well.
Vince Abramo (16m 1s):
Yes, exactly.
Jim Stroud (16m 2s):
Ah, very sly, very wise. Okay. Let me throw out a management question at you since you're on a roll. What's the best way to handle micromanagers? Those people who have to know everything you're doing at every moment of the day, especially in this remote work atmosphere we're all in.
Vince Abramo (16m 20s):
Yes, so micromanagers need a lot of trust and you want to work on building trust with the micromanagers. You want to understand where that behavior is coming from. If they've been burned by another employee before or if they've handled it all by themselves before, where is that coming from? Understanding that is really important, especially in conflict. Ask for feedback instead of always being micromanaged by that person. Understand the expectation, have that rapport with them, and suggest an accountability system. They'll feel like they can trust you, that you are checking in with them.
Jim Stroud (17m 1s):
Well, let me ask you this, because this happened 2021, when the pandemic hit right here. Everybody knows the one I'm talking about there. When everybody started working from home, companies that were not used to their employees working from home started buying all this spyware. I don't know if this happened in Hawaii, but they buy a lot of spyware so they can track to make sure that workers are actually working in that watching Netflix all day. Did you have that issue in Hawaii?
Jim Stroud (17m 42s):
Did it happen?
Vince Abramo (17m 45s):
Yes, yes.
Jim Stroud (17m 46s):
Wow. Wow. Tell me about that. How did people handle that? How did that work?
Vince Abramo (17m 52s):
Sorry, my notifications are not turned off. A lot of people started complaining and that's when you see a little bit of an Exodus too of people not feeling like they can be trusted to do their work. The ones that are great communicators, they share that, "Hey, I don't need to be micromanage or having someone check up on me because I need that freedom to do this work and for you to trust me to do it." I'm able to do the work if I'm not always being tracked.
Jim Stroud (18m 27s):
Okay. Okay. Interesting. Interesting. I've always wondered. I'm not a litigious person, so I don't keep up with all the laws and that stuff, but I wondered if there were some trend where some people were suing employees, or something, over privacy issues, because if everyone was working from home, you get to see inside their home by virtue of all these zoom meetings, team meetings, and things like that. I wonder if any legal issues had arisen because of that. Have you heard anything like that?
Vince Abramo (19m 4s):
I haven't heard anything. Again, My friend is the interim director for ACLU here, and I think he keeps those litigious things private. I can imagine that it is that tracking thing that is really pushing the boundary because it is home. It's home and work at the same time, but yes, having that camera or that spyware.
Jim Stroud (19m 27s):
It's like the whole big brother's watching you at all times.
Vince Abramo (19m 33s):
Understandable. You should know that you are employing someone that you do trust to do the work.
Jim Stroud (19m 40s):
Yes, because the question is, if you can't trust them, why hire them?
Vince Abramo (19m 43s):
Exactly.
Jim Stroud (19m 44s):
That's a wow. Yes. Something else that is really big here in the States, I want to see how it goes in Hawaii because I'm so curious. Over here, there is a lot of attention on politics. You cannot escape politics in United States. Even if you try to, it manages to rear its ugly head in some form or fashion. People up here tend to bring up political topics in a workplace.
Jim Stroud (20m 25s):
Some people engage but most people try to stay out of it, but it comes up. How should employees handle political conversations in workplace in your estimation?
Vince Abramo (20m 38s):
Sure. Speaking to human resource professionals, they have already probably set up an accountability system or a policy around not speaking about politics or having political things at the workplace. Having those policy in place, revisiting that policy, and as an individual, you can pack this active listening, again, thinking about that micromanager again, having empathy for that person and where they're coming from. It might help you to learn and grow, really listening to the other person's opinion. If it is a hot button subject and you know this person is going to get angry over it, then you don't want to bring it up.
Vince Abramo (21m 21s):
Of course, knowing when to walk away from that person, but hopefully, that policy is being reinforced in the workplace.
Jim Stroud (21m 33s):
Okay. Okay. Okay. I know you have a background in conflict resolution. Now, I'm imagining that even in a peaceful state of Hawaii, there are some conflicts that come about in the workplace. What are some tips you can give me about how to handle a conflict in the workplace?
Vince Abramo (21m 56s):
Sure. People think of conflict as people yelling at each other, right? Conflict also happens when someone is avoiding you or passive aggressive. That is actually conflict too because they're not able to have a voice. When you're feeling frustrated with the person that's not speaking up or when you're feeling frustrated with a person who is arguing with you, you want to, again, separate the person from the behavior and you don't know, again, where that person is coming from, what their conflict mode was like in their childhood.
Vince Abramo (22m 38s):
They may be answering some things or responding to things that were not addressed in their childhood. That's the only way that they know how to respond to conflict. You want to ask yourself if you're contributing to or rewarding and encouraging the behavior unknowingly because it's a pattern. Notice the pattern and why does this type of conflict bother you?
Jim Stroud (23m 3s):
Interesting.
Vince Abramo (23m 3s):
Yes, super interesting. You want to be curious, of course, again, about the behavior and the mechanism. What are the triggers that are bringing this up for the other person? What are the triggers for you that this conflict is happening? You want to ask questions and never judge. Be really, really, really curious, have open-ended questions, utilize active listening, and have it safe for the other person. If the person needs time to really gather their thoughts or you need time, revisit again, make sure it's on the calendar, and have a meeting. Use every faculty you can for emotional intelligence, increase your emotional intelligence, and have engaging conversation and use your active listening skills.
Jim Stroud (23m 47s):
Emotional intelligence, that seems to be a vanishing skill. Have you noticed that from your side of the world? Is it a management skill?
Vince Abramo (23m 58s):
Yes, especially when it comes to social media, because when people feel safe and they can comment on anything. Well, for me, I'm like, "Why is this person responding this way? Where is this coming from? What's happening that they feel like they have to voice it in this way?" It's, again, thinking about their emotional intelligence and why don't they dial it back? Yes, sometimes, I do call out people in the middle of a mediation or facilitation. I'm like, "Hey, let's take a little break here.
Vince Abramo (24m 42s):
Let's make sure that anger is not rearing its head," because anger is a choice. Emotional intelligence can come up before anger and say, "Hey, I really need to take a step back. I'm feeling my heart racing. I'm feeling like I'm about to push the enter button on making a comment in Twitter right now." Taking that step back and really assessing what you're responding to.
Jim Stroud (25m 9s):
I like when you said anger is a choice. It made me think about a certain speeding ticket I received once in the past. I was really angry at someone. I was trying to zoom to pick them up from the mall, but I won't mention her name. Well, anyway, I was angry at somebody and I was zooming through the mall to pick them up. Then my wife complained, and I drive too fast sometimes. I can't help, this is how I drive, but the corner of my eye, I saw a police car. All of a sudden, I could slow down. All of a sudden, I could come to a complete stop because the policeman there.
Jim Stroud (25m 54s):
Then she says, "Oh, so you can control yourself."
Vince Abramo (26m 1s):
Yes, practicing that emotional intelligence. I have people's practice the stop technique, which is a Neuro-encoding practice of what is the other side of negativity. We don't want to say positive psychology and things like that, but accurate psychology. What is really realistic right now?
Jim Stroud (26m 20s):
What is really realistic? That's interesting too. That makes me think about so many times. Sometimes I lose faith in humanity when I see things like this, when someone has is in a car accident or someone is being accosted or something and people stop and they recorded with their phones, but they don't step in to help the person. I don't know if it's a generational thing because usually I see younger people doing this, but it's just weird to me that people can stop and record something and post it on social media, but they won't step in to help somebody when they obviously need help.
Jim Stroud (27m 2s):
Have you seen that? Have you noticed that too?
Vince Abramo (27m 6s):
Yes. Again, ask why? Did that person have an event that they could not go to? We are in a litigious society, right? Maybe, they don't want to step in because they don't want to be sued for something that they were trying to good Samaritan law. Thinking of those scenarios of why that person is not stepping in. Why are they just observing? Why did they bring up their phone? Having that understanding, and then you're creating a scotoma opportunity to insert some teaching for someone else.
Jim Stroud (27m 42s):
Yes. It makes me sort of wonder when you think about these things outside of HR, but they definitely spilled into HR in some way that those people are people and how people act outside of work will sometimes come into the workplace. Do you often feel that sometimes that to be a professional HR person, you have to have a background in psychology. You have to be a bit of a therapist in a way as well or kindergarten teacher background sometimes? Do you feel that way?
Vince Abramo (28m 11s):
Yes. Any kind of development that you can increase your skills on is so important, whether it's psychology or even any kind of coaching skills that you can have. I'm also coming from that place of empathy, of being vulnerable yourself and having that opportunity for that person to, again, have a safe space to communicate with you.
Jim Stroud (28m 35s):
I like that. Is there any more advice you give to maybe the HR community overall? If so, what would it be?
Vince Abramo (28m 43s):
I would advise any company, especially in HR, to evaluate their communication every year. What are the processes and systems, and create a dispute resolution system. What does that look like? When there is something that comes up, like a conflict, how do you handle that? What are the next steps? You have something that can look at and revisit that every year also in how you can improve.
Jim Stroud (29m 10s):
Nice, nice. I feel like I've learned a lot and I think I've gotten a little bit closer to Hawaii now.
Vince Abramo (29m 18s):
You are. You are actually closer than you think. Sounds like your family is coming within the next year.
Jim Stroud (29m 26s):
You got to give me some hula lessons if I manage that. Thank you so much for your time. I do appreciate it. If someone wanted to get in contact with you, specifically, and continue this conversation, how could they find you online?
Vince Abramo (29m 42s):
Sure. I'm on bamboo shoot and that's a website. I'm also on Instagram and Twitter, bamboo shoot high, bamboo shoot on Facebook, and then they can check me out all my classes on event bright as well.
Jim Stroud (29m 55s):
Very good. Vince Abramo, thank you so much for your time. You are appreciated.
Vince Abramo (29m 58s):
Thank you. Aloha.
Jim Stroud (29m 59s):
Yes, aloha. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. A thousand times, thank you for listening and subscribing to our podcast. If you have any questions, comments, or suggestions, please send them to us. You can reach us at TribePod@ProactiveTalent.com. We look forward to hearing from you.
